Forbidden Donut

I'll throw my two cents in. McCain is smater, but needs to show it more often. Obama is a fantastic orator, but flip flops on major issues (ie nuclear power). McCain needs to stop using the same phrases and to start answering questions if he wishes to win. Obama needs to realize that his tax proposals and budget cuts wont work as he has planned. McCain needs to learn that Oliver's name wasn't "Allan."

But we knew these issues before the debate. This was the worst debate I've ever seen, and at the current rate at which our candidates progress intellectually, in 12 years we'll be electing a plant.

My grade for the second debate: F

Edit: Thanks, Buuuuuuudy.

And to think, if McCain had it his way we would have seen this shit fest of a debatecle TEN TIMES. And according to him and his campaign, that would have prevented McCain from going negative.

/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

For the first bit I actually got the feeling that McCain was smarter than I thought previously. Then he spent the last half repeating himself over and over and calling it an answer. And playing the ref was annoying. "I assume I'll be getting the same amount of time to respond to Senator Obama?" No John, I'm going to be patently biased towards Barack because I hate you. neener neener.

I also thought that McCain had a number of wtf moments throughout. "That One!" was bullshit and he knew it. Leaving before talking to all the voters there. Not shaking Obama's hand (yeah I know he did it the one time when Gibson yelled at them, but he snubbed him the second time). Just a lot of stupid shit and he should know better.

Obama didn't really do or say much that he hasn't said before. No Keating, no Ayers. He did "flip flop" (i guess?) on Nuclear Power. But I think he's always said it should be part of an overall drive to get away from mideast oil. I mean, he focused more on green energy because it's politically easy (one of the few issues I preferred McCain's straight forward answers to) but he's always suggested that we can't be afraid of nuclear power as part of his energy plan. I liked to hear him come out and say that he'd make it a goal to get more plants out there.

/That debate sucked goat dick. Fuck town halls.
//120 second answer, 120 second rebuttle, followups from the moderator with 30-60 second redresses by each candidate and a 30 second closing statement on the subject PLEASE
///This whole debate cycle is complete crap. political theater.

edit: I don't think anybody knows enough in this economic climate to make a positive or negative statement regarding the effects of either candidates tax plan. Including them. I think it's like the Porn debate. There's no evidence that porn is bad, or addictive, or leads to deviant behavior. And there's no evidence it doesn't. However one side of the debate has boobies.
/Obama's plan will tax me less and if shit gets more expensive, I just won't buy it?

I was immensely frustrated that Obama couldn't keep to the time allotted. I know he could talk for 90 minutes about his policies, the state of this country, and his opponent, but this isn't a stump speech. This is a debate.

If he went over a few times like McCain did, fine. That happens every presidential debate. But he didn't go over a few times. He went over every time. And usually he didn't just go over by a few seconds trying to end his thought -- at one point it got so bad that Brokaw had to get up, walk out onto the floor and try to verbally stop Obama, and still Obama kept going on and on. He has a lot to say; I get it. But stop disrespecting the moderator and all of the people who's question the debate no longer has the time to ask by being an inconsiderate amateur.

What probably annoyed me most about his inability to even fake that he's attempting to follow the rules was that he didn't say anything most of the time! It's a debate, so you can't take three god damn minutes to introduce your point. Your point should have been introduced by the bloody question in the first place.

/rant

McCain needs to stop roaming around the fucking floor while Obama speaks. It's called yielding the floor, you senile fuck.

/shorter-rant

At the beginning of the debate, I thought McCain was trouncing Obama. First of all, he introduced a new policy initiate with his mortgage turn-over idea. New policy in a debate -- I haven't seen that in any presidential debate that I can remember. Plus, he kind of reminded me of the old McCain because he was speaking really to the point and matter-of-factly. I was pleasantly surprised, and I thought it was a sharp contrast to Obama's apparent rambling.

I thought the whole middle of the debate was a clusterfuck.

I thought the end of the debate really leaned toward Obama. It seemed like McCain was just getting irritable and anxious to get off the stage, and I think it made him appear even older than he usually does. Obama's quick response of "it's a right" to the right/responsibility/privilege-healthcare question is the type of answer that a lot of people in the US will relate to, and it made it look like he actually had an opinion on the matter.

The biggest thing I thought that was lacking from the debate was more talk of fiscal responsibility. I love McCain's spending-freeze idea -- I think it is the greatest single idea that has been put forth by either of the major candidates so far, and I think it is one of the few useful things the next President could do starting on day 1. Personally, I don't think Obama really has any mind for fiscal responsibility, and I think it really would have swung the whole debate in McCain's favor.

At the end of the debate it looked like to me that the chairs might have been hurting his back. He started the debate pretty relaxed and ended up not really sitting at all towards the end, but standing or leaning against his chair.

I didn't catch it but my roommate said it was defiantly a McCain victory.

Like everyone has said, the gloves never really came off and we're all left with the same feelings we began the night with. I doubt either gained any additional support, nor damaged the minds of any current supporters

That said: Obama wins (only slightly) by technicality. With many major polls showing Obama winning major battleground states, all he needed to do was not damage the good thing he has going. He needed to not make any irrational claims, or have a major breakdown in his debating skills, and he would suceed at not being retarded

The spotlight was really on Mccain, and i believe he fell rather flat on that regard. The "maverick" took all of the jabs we expected and didn't bust out anything we haven't already heard over the last month or so. I believed he had potential to score a big win, but left a lot of opportunities on the floor.

Now for a mini rant of my own:
Was I not the only one who wanted to punch him in his frail hips every time he said "My friends...". It sounded like he was speaking through his teeth, and he really hates every single one of us.

I was reading this transcript (because I'm a masochist apparently) and this stuck out like a sore thumb. I know McCain is campaigning against earmarks, but he seems to be of the opinion that spending money on projects is the devil.



This is what they were using
This is what Obama (is still trying) to get for them
This is who benefits from this the most
And this man would rather give that money to corporations

Spending money on projects is the devil. He's just playing to what is left of his [truly] conservative base.

I wish I didn't always have rehearsal during debates... I feel really out of the loop right now.

You should. You fail as a citizen for your own personal amusement.

You can catch a replay, occasionally with real-time fact checking the day after (usually). Alternatively: here

Back to that planetarium though. I think his conservative base is starting to see through his crap. Complaining about a guy getting money to help save a floundering planetarium which is using a projector that was installed before we landed on the moon sounds... nitpicky... I'm pretty fiscally conservative. I hate on plenty of pork. But I understand that the earmark system has done a lot of good for this country in spite of its abuse. Furthermore that particular earmark hasn't even been paid out, or approved... because well, Obama plays by the books.

McCain called out 3 million bucks or something spent to study grizzly bear DNA. He joked about it being a paternal issue. He's said this several times. What he's not saying is that he offered no resistance to that specific earmark. He's talking out both sides of his mouth and I'd REALLY like to believe that all but the most loyal of conservatives will abandon him for it.

Conservatives abandoned McCain a long time ago.

Most of them anyway. And there are more jumping ship everyday. If not to The Obama then to Barr, Paul, or even fucking Perot has been mentioned. I'm sure many of them will just not vote.

Quoted for truth Jono.

His "my friends" shenanigans are well documented. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

/part of our drinking game was if he said it twice in the same sentence, finish your beer.
//My friends, I drank a lot of beer that night, and became quite inebriated my friends.

I will have to plan something of that nature for the upcoming debate...

check out the fark debate threads. rules get thrown out and you get to watch the debate and see real time fact checking by the armies of the damned.