Forbidden Donut

been sayin' it for years...

I personally think that it's a big waste of time. Primary preventative programs like D.A.R.E. don't work, no one believes that marijuana is a gateway drug, and like the article states, most of the people going to rehab are doing it to avoid jail time.

The message sent about the "level" of illicitness of marijuana is a little contradictory also (this will make sense in a second)... I go to a state-run college, and the consequences for getting caught in possession of alcohol, marijuana, and "other" drugs are posted all over the school. While being in possession of "other" drugs or paraphernalia can get you expelled from school immediately, possession of marijuana results in no more punishment for being in possession of alcohol in the dorms. That doesn't really add up, imo.

Not to mention I still can't believe drugs like morphine and cocaine are still Schedule II and STILL USED in medical procedures today (cocaine is actually a common local anesthetic in sinus surgery) but marijuana is still Schedule I along with drugs like LSD as having no medical value.

Now, to temper those statements, I don't believe that marijuana should be made legal. If it were to become legal, the likely course of events is that the government would seize regulation of it, quality would drop, prices would rise, and the "black market" buyer-seller relationship would be totally destroyed, not to mention those that choose to grow their own marijuana would be in much more trouble...instead of just doing something illegal, they're undermining a government service (read: profit).

Pretty much my 2 cents.

Agreed on the "War on Drugs" is a waste. We are stopping but a drop in the bucket of drugs in the US. It makes me laugh that we didn't learn our lesson with prohibition. If you make it illegal, people will still get it. They'll get it is through the black market, only helping criminals, who by the way we don't like. So why not legalize it, and control it? It would also bring in some much needed money to the goverment through taxes (so then we have money for our war on terror!). But hell if we did that, it would look like we have a pot smoking commy bastid goverment, so why would they do it!?

To me the war on drugs is even more of a mystery than the war in Iraq. I think the majority of people can understand that marijuana is not the problem that some people make it out to be.

So on to the topic of legalizing it, I think we should legalize it, but keep it completely privatized and as unregulated by the government as possible. The government can make plenty of money off a simple tax, no different than taxing any other item in the economy. If farmers could legally grow marijuana, I think our economy would see a huge boost as a result. Right now we are essentially paying South America and criminals for a drug that can be grown wonderfully right along side tobacco in Virginia etc. So instead of paying the however millions or billions of dollars that are spent per year to either South America or other criminals, lets put the money into our economy.

As for the safety concern, I have smoked before, and drank alcohol before, and both had about the same severity of intoxication for me. What it boils down to is personal control, restraint, and responsibility. There will always be people out of control and doing stupid things. These people make it painfully obvious and the police don't have to try very hard to find them. The police should focus on this group of people, rather than going out of their way to find responsible, sensible, and otherwise law abiding people to arrest and/or harass.

Need I even mention hemp production, especially for hemp ethanol?

I mean, the war on drugs is perhaps the most wasteful and useless government program, other than maybe the War of Terror.

I just watched American Gangster tonight at the theaters, and it made me realize just how much crime comes from illegal drug traffic and the mafia and drug lords that are associated with it. My question is this, if all drugs became legal and privatized by the economy in a situation that would be more easily regulated(by businessmen instead of gangsters), how much crime would that eliminate?

Organized crime would have to focus their energies elsewhere. They've always been involved in gambling, so they may focus on that more if drugs were legalized.

But to play devil's advocate, that line of reasoning isn't really valid. If we legalized murder, Philadelphia would have 400 less violent crimes every year!

That wasn't where my logic was coming from at all. My theory isn't that if people are legally allowed to do it they wont. It is that instead of organized crime heading up drug fronts and fighting for sales and 'territory' that it will be businessmen and companies, just like competition between two grocery stores.

Then again, I suppose there is always kids that need to buy their drugs from somewhere.

Right, but that would just be a matter of some guy buying it(and paying the tax or whatever) and selling it to the kid for an inflated price.

However, the current arrangement is more like:
1. Grown/refined by FARC revolutionaries in Colombia
2. Smuggled into US by same
3. Sold to gang boss
4. Sold once again to street dealer
5. Sold to end user, or maybe yet another small-time dealer

If we legalized it would take a huge amount of money out of criminals' pockets, and we'd save a huge enough chunk of change at the federal level to be able to implement rehab programs at the local level.

That sums up my basic philosophy, except I think we should just let people die instead of spending money on them and sending them to rehab. It is the individuals responsibility at that point, not the governments.

How about we legalize drugs that aren't bad, and make illegal ones that are bad.

Exactly, but I know, realistically, that local governments WOULD start rehabilitation programs with local money, and maybe on the state level, as well. My immediate concern is getting drug policy out of the federal government.

Yes Scabdates, the system we have now to do that is working so well isn't it.

i don't see how legalization could ever work without honest drug education and comprehensive rehab programs funded by local state and federal money. and i guarantee those programs and education initiatives won't cost anywhere NEAR as much as the war on drugs.

I just choose not to care. Anyone else can go ahead and smoke as much as they want; it's none of my damn business.

I wasn't talking from an economical standpoint, not attempting to get people to stop doing drugs. I do agree however, that education is basically the only way to get people to steer away from doing drugs.

it's only a matter of time until all drugs are legalized. not sure how i feel about the legalization of heroin though with it's 2% recover rate.

i hope your being sarcastic

Second that sarcasm hopefullness.

no, i'm not being sarcastic. there are many, many benefits to the legalization of drugs and when it comes down to it, people want to do drugs they are going to do them so why should we stop them. the amount of resources that have been poured into the "war", over $148 billion, could have been used for something else that actually benefited the nation. instead, we have these laws that incarcerate drug dealers longer than rapists. seriously, where are our priorities on this issue.

on another note, Nixon started the "war" on drugs cause he hated blacks. seriously.

scrubble's right

that reaction is really an understatement...



that exactly.

It's a little bit off-topic but have you guys seen the movie Black-Panthers ? It explains the origin of drugs and it is a really interesting movie that shows a part ouf the history.

i don't understand how that is so "likely". why couldn't legalization be done intelligently?

Thats the thing is I agree, it most definitely can be done intelligently. I was expressing my more cynical outlook. Legalization would become a situation easily exploited by those extraordinarily greedy few that thrive within every powerhouse.

Well that's the thing with pirating music imo. Once music realized that pirating music via internet was readily available, instead of intelligently using that opportunity to make money off it, they immediately assumed that it was a threat and corresponded their action accordingly.

So basically...american government doesn't know when how to act intelligently over certain situations and instead of thinking over they immediately see everything as a threat. That's what I came to realize now-a-days....o_O

^ one of the good examples of what contribute to my more cynical view

Yeah well your face is cynical /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

I would think that standard quality would increase as actual well paid scientists would start working on new ways to tweak marijuana.

It's America, we are capitalists.

And as to prices rising, that is debatable. And even if they did, do you know what that would mean? It would be less accessible to kids with little/no money and the percentage usage by responsible adults/people would skyrocket.

Yay for 2 in the morning pretentious posts. But I'd still like to hear any arguments against what I just said.

it's fucking stupid.


here's the deal.


you're part of society that makes enough money for you to wipe your ass with. when an idea comes along that can affect that, you panic, and use your money to cover up ways to losing it all. people are greedy and stupid. we're not going to get anywhere when you have billionaires that aren't willing to give back to the community.


the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. there's always that thirst to get your slice of the pie and be somewhat happy, but when you look at it, you've got these insanely rich people that just have more money than they know what to do with. paying $6,000 for a dress/suit. I just think that there's a line that people cross everyday, and no one on this forum is on the other side of that line.

things have gotten progressively worse, and i hate to admit it...i know i know, but this shit isn't george bush's fault. it's his friends. the poor guy was tossed in there and this puppet govt. is running america.


i am fed up with this country. i am fed up with having to carry the rich while the poor still suffer.


side note: i put gas in my car yesterday and i paid a whopping 3.59/gallon. taxes are through the roof in new york because of new york city. in massachusetts, i paid 3.15/gallon. they should get this country out of recession by removing the federal gas tax for the rest of the year...causing people to want to go out and use the money for something other than to put in their gas tank.

and for the love of god, stop buying SUVs.

we're plagued with a government that approaches the war on drugs by preventing the flow of drugs onto the street one one hand, and does business with the same corrupt militias on the other hand.

Now that you mention about SUVs and such, can we stop making retarded cars that have 4x4s or even a 465hp HYBRID car and think about making a cheaper and more affordable hybrids??? That'd be kinda nice, then again this country likes to keep its money so it will continuously use fossil fuels until we basically burn in hell. And instead of trying to fix that problem, we are more focused on suing people for pirating and war vs drugs even though no matter what you do, drugs will be a big part of our lives, illegal or not.

So...go us???

Some people need 4x4's. If there weren't any 4x4's back where I grew up the roads didn't get plowed, because the neighborhood plowed its own roads.

I just don't understand the point of having a 4x4 sedan. Just doesn't make sense to me.

better traction maybe? A friend of mine has one of the AWD Lexus IS250's, and it handles awesomely.

From the drug war to wez all funna dai, in 2 pages at fdassault.com

what i don't understand is those pricks that drive enormous SUVs in florida. it's to fucking tailgate me on the 75 when i'm already going 85. i want to stab them with a polearm

No need cars, use your bike.