Forbidden Donut

Bear in mind, from what I gather from Pheylan's comments, he is experiencing the Active Duty Military care system from the Officer side of things. So his experience is going to be a little bit better than the junior enlisted personnel are seeing in regards to wait times, though they do ultimately get to see the same people.

VA is a pain in the butt. Another response forthcoming on that.

Except your quick search actually is in line with what I was saying.



First mention, Retirees... Let me check:


Second mention is "service-connected injuries or conditions rated by VA."

Let us see what I said about that:


And they need it documented up the wazoo because the VA has a tendency of pulling every bureaucratic trick in the book it possibly can to deny coverage or otherwise claim/"determine" the issues the veteran is suffering from wasn't "service connected" after all, and not their problem.



Yay, so for me to get Medical Veterans Benefits all I need to do is live below the poverty line and essentially qualify for medicaid so I can then have the VA help pay for it and go through the VA's system rather than the general public option. Otherwise the VA is just another care option for vets that will be cost comparative with the outside world... Again, not much of a benefit for the non-retires who didn't get maimed in service to their country.



Which goes back to:



And the conclusion of:



They(the VA) lawyers the ever living fuck out of the "service connected" illness/disability, and that is where the teeth pulling starts, and typically continues as an ongoing event.

Like everybody else's insurance. Except the VA is run with far less overhead and deals with far more serious medical conditions.



Well I suppose that would depend on where the line was drawn. I didn't see a qualifier saying that you had to be below the poverty line. That is either your assumption or your personal experience.



I have no idea how "there are regulations and requirements in place needed to qualify for VA care" means "it's a completely corrupt system that is based entirely on favoritism and having powerful connections"

That's like saying that because I need to provide to pieces of snail mail to the DMV in order to get my driver's license means that I can only get my license if I know the Governor... Sorry, I don't buy it.

You were doing really well until that last, completely over the top bit.

But this argument is largely about whether the government runs a decent health care system. You've described faults with the VA system that are prevalent in its private counterpart. Is there something the VA has a tendency to mishandle that private insurance does a better job with?

Where did I say the VA is "corrupt" as you're wanting to call it?

I'm claiming it is bureaucratic and ineffectual.

Instances of people receiving VA Care they were not entitled to is virtually unheard of. (Which would be where corruption claims could rightfully come into play)

Instances of people who are entitled to receive VA Care who have their claims denied until they they start working political strings to "backdoor the process" are frighteningly common.



No it's more like saying the DMV is going to decline your application to get a drivers license even though everything is in order. Until you petition the Governor and his office starts asking them why you haven't had your license issued, at which point you suddenly get your license issued.

The bolded part is what most people would call "corruption".

And if that bolded part is frighteningly common, you should be able to dig up an example or two pretty easily, no?

Also, shit... who cares? I mean... at all. The problems you are describing are identical to the ones presented by the VA's private counterparts. So while I maintain that the VA is still preferable to private insurance, I don't see how saying that VA sucks just as bad as private insurance helps your case that agencies run by the government are somehow inherently extra-inefficient.

Sorry, but to me, the bolded part you quoted back would be equivalent to my going to the store's manager and complaining about the person working the Customer Service Desk refusing to refund my purchase even though everything is in order on my end. There is no corrupt deal on my side or the manager's side, there is simply a Customer Service Clerk who isn't doing their job properly.

And as for providing an example? Kind of hard to do when medical information is considered confidential and most of the Veteran's affected aren't out for publicity, so it is generally kept low-key to the point that the only way you hear about it is by means of knowing the persons being affected.

So what you were describing is not some gross inefficiency or even a mild damnation of the VA. You were just saying that sometimes your claim is denied until you call and get it straightened out. Unless you're saying that you need to be related to the manager too, in which case, yeah... I'd call that corruption. So... what's your point again?

I feel compelled to point out that it seems strange that the VA would be so absolutely terrible, so bad in fact that it serves as an example to dissuade us from pursuing any other nationalized health insurance systems, and yet so many veterans choose to use it. If private insurance is better than at least SOME veterans would say "fuck off" to the VA.