Forbidden Donut

I don't know enough about Biden to say anything yet.

Conventions are a waste of tax payer money.

I find it amusing that, when asked if he were to be chosen, if he would accept the offer at being the VP, Biden stated that he wouldn't like to be, and that Obama has a lot to learn. Yet, here he is, accepting the offer he said he would refuse. Also note, Obama introduced Biden as the "next President". I found that fact more amusing though.

Did anybody watch Biden's speech with Obama? I think he called him "Barack Amer" at one point. It was really weird.

Nice straw man there, retard.

"Wouldn't like to be" and "refuse" are not the same thing. More importantly, ideas and opinions can change very easily.

Why would I note that Obama made a very small error in speaking? Why is this notable?

Are they funded by tax payers? I thought it was paid for by the party's national committee, and I didn't think they received any money from taxes. These are big "I think"s though, because I honestly have never looked into it.

It's paid for by donations, if I am not mistaken.

Quick Google search, first thing that came up.



http://www.whiotv.com/news/17134895/detail.html

Good find.

I have to agree with you. The fact that even a dime of tax payer money goes to any political party (for any purpose) is completely bogus.

Well this turned into a giant wharrgarbl fast.

Xemplar's post comes right out of the WSJ.
Pheylan's deflection of the issues is downright impressive.
Evestay managed to say something that adds no value to the discussion for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that you aren't even sure he said it, but mostly because it means nothing even if it's true.

Here's Biden
Here's convention funding

Cmon guys, we're better than this.

Biden has done great work for civil rights over the years. He has experience to temper the attacks on Obama's lack thereof. Some money comes from taxpayers if there's a shortfall, but the vast majority comes from corporate donations and lobbyists.

Yep. Nonroot posted this one:



edit:

The convention is pretty exciting. Both are. I'm most excited for what's happening across the street from the GOP convention, but it's nice to finalize the candidates and be able to move on from the painful primaries.

I can't wait for some debates and hear how the candidates handle themselves.

Moving to Europe once I'm done with school is looking better every day. That's how excited I am about these conventions.

I don't know why Obama chose Biden. I haven't really been following this very much, so I don't have any fantastic sources like you guys who are so good at all this discussion and fight ferociously for what you think you believe to be the right thing, but I heard from a friend that I trust to not pull things out of his ass that Biden did more than just say that he wouldn't like to run for v.p if asked by Obama. I heard he was completely against Obama, and that what he had to say, was attacking Obama. Maybe they will make a good team. I don't know, I just find it odd that Obama would try to win the election with someone that was outright against him earlier, it doesn't add up.
That being said, the only good thing I have heard about Biden is that he has experience as a diplomat and will help out Obama's foreign policy. Doesn't Hilary experience? She was the first lady to Clinton, she has been around the bush, so to say, before. And there are a lot of people that would support her(teh womenz).

I just thought I'd poke my head around and say what I thought. I've been seeing a lot of talk going on in these forums about different issues, and I have to ask myself just what the hell is going on. Feel free to do with my post what you please.

Saying Hillary will be as good on foreign policy as Bill Clinton is like saying Yoko Ono will be as good on guitar as John Lennon.

Actually, not quite. You see, Hillary has experience with foreign policy in the senate, while Bill would have had no experience with foreign policy as a governor.

Who said anything about experience?

Governors do a bit of foreign relations in terms of how state commerce translates overseas. For example, I'm sure foreign businessmen see the Gov of CA (as like the 5-9th biggest economy in the world in its own right) in order to ask him to make certain business regulations or deregulations. But yes, that isnt as much as a Senator on the Foreign Relations Committee.
And I missed the convention tonight =\, stupid law school is already hard.

i like biden. i just wish he wasn't a retard when it comes to technology legislation.

i feel like he's an honest guy and he'll do a great job as VP. i thought obama might go with someone more from the right to try to help win the election. it might be tough for him to garner swing voters and republicans unhappy with mccain now that he's picked a fellow lefty.

Obama's youngest daughter is about the most adorable person on the planet. Other than that, the Michelle speech was okay, and the rest was boring. I watched football at the same time.

That said. Redbone, I don't want to say your friend is misinformed. There hasn't been a whole lot of discussion about what Biden said/meant. He referred to Obama's lack of experience and said that if he were the nominee that he wouldn't like to pursue the second spot on his ticket. That's really easy to report as being the most negative thing ever, and it's far from an endorsement, but it's hardly opposition.

Also, Hillary would have been a terrible choice. The way she acted during the Primary was divisive and counterproductive. There is a pretty significant section of voters that feel like she was robbed, and I blame her for generating that group by farting around in the Primary and smearing her fellow democrat. Her base ate it up and they still haven't been able to shit it out. She can do far more in the Senate than she can as VP anyway.

Talking about experience is silly when the only job that can prepare you to be the POTUS is being the POTUS. And since you only get 2 chances, the first is always a practice run while trying to be re-electable and the second is do-what-you-really-want-to time, I think the more important characteristic of a potential president would have to be a combination of character and wits.

/Policies (that can actually be carried out) are the #1 priority though.

Biden is a good choice for VP; no one in the senate can claim to have as much foreign policy experience as he does, and he is great at appealing to working-class voters throughout the rust belt -- an area that Obama severely lacks in.

However, I don't think he is the best choice. I think Hillary was by-far-and-away the best choice for VP, and I'm a little confused as to why anyone (besides a McCain supporter) would think it is good that she was passed up.

For one, I don't think she was divisive in her campaign. I think the latter portion of her campaign was awesome, and had they taken the route they did a month earlier, I have no doubt she would have sealed the nomination before the summer. No, I think it was Obama's supporters that were divisive. Shit, just go back and read the posts in this forum -- a place where most of the people discussing politics claim to be well-informed, rational minds. When anyone expressed their disdain for Obama or simply said they liked Hillary more, they were lambasted and ridiculed to no end.

Second, whether it is the truth or not (and I do not believe it is), America has the perception that Hillary is one of the most experienced candidates to ever hit the campaign trail. Biden might actually have the foreign policy experience to back up his talk, but Hillary doesn't need it. And due to her vast notoriety, skillful politicking, and her relation to Bill, the working-class love her.

Any political analyst will tell you: the VP doesn't swing an election. For all the emphasis we put on the pick, it really doesn't matter; come November, the presidential candidate is the only thing that matters. But for as long as this trend has held true, we've never had an election quite like this. She won the [primary] popular vote. This is the party that bitched to no end when Bush was elected after losing the popular vote, and you expect them to simply fall in-line behind the loser? I mean, I'm not saying I support the "popular vote is everything" mindset, but the democratic party has consistently stood behind that belief for all of their modern campaigns. Barack won because he expertly worked the system and ran a brilliant campaign -- something that is almost always attributed to Republicans.

Of course, anytime a candidate gets knocked out of the nomination process, some of their supporters aren't going to fall in behind the opponent. We'll never be able to change that. However, once again, this isn't like past elections. 18 MILLION people voted for her. Only 53% of those people are behind Barack, 27% are undecided, and 20% said they're going to vote for McCain. The 27% is a big deal, but I bet many of them will ultimately vote blue. But nearly FOUR MILLION people that would have voted democrat are outright switching sides. That's unheard of! The past two elections came down to a few hundred thousand votes, and Obama was OK with handing 4 million of them to McCain? Biden isn't going to get any of them back. Barack clearly isn't going to get any of them back. Hillary would have, so she clearly would have swung the race much more than any VP candidate in modern politics.

I think it was a horrible mistake to not ask her to take the VP seat. I seriously worry that it could seriously hurt Obama's chances in November. You may love Obama's cock, but he's in a dead-heat in what should have been the easiest presidential campaign to win in recent memory, so clearly he's doing something very very wrong.

Redbone....can I come with you? If obama wins, god help us.

"How can I start a stupid argument and generally act like a jackass in an otherwise valuable thread."

Looks like you answered the age old question.

"You may love Obama's cock, but he's in a dead-heat in what should have been the easiest presidential campaign to win in recent memory, so clearly he's doing something very very wrong."

Yeah he's really having a tough time there.

Meanwhile, the other side has been in attack mode since the primaries, there haven't been any debates, or anything, the polls are all meaningless until the end of september, and OBAMA HAS NEVER BEEN LOSING TO MCCAIN FOR MORE THAN 24 HOURS.

Your concern is noted.

ANunes, Gov's point still holds that the race is closer than it should be, given the historical factors. And http://www.gallup.com/poll/109834/Gallup-D...n-Tracking.aspx - McCain takes his first daily lead.

meh, color me non-chalant. Obama hasn't even officially accepted the nomination yet, and he spent the last 2 months before primaries in defense mode against his own party. Then he won. Against a Clinton. She *may* have had more in popular vote if you count FL and MI, but they wanted to be more important then they are for some reason and they fucked it up. Even when you count them, I haven't seen anything to suggest it wasn't about a 50-50 split still.

More @ gov:
her campaign was all about Obama, His campaign was all about Obama. Which one ran the divisive campaign at the jeopardy of the party, and is now seeing her attacks recycled by the republicans? All McCain has to do to get disaffected Hillary supporters is say, "she's right".

McCain spent a TON of money on time slots during the fuckin' olympics for his Ayers ad... Obama... didn't. The olympics were the single most watched event in American history, so if that's what it takes to bump McCain above Obama in one particular poll, then you'll have to excuse me while I wait for him to run out of money in a month trying to stay above water.

I don't see how Hillary would have not been a good choice for Obama. I do see why he wouldn't want to run for office with her. One big reason the polls are split right now is all the time the Democrat candidates and supporters of those candidates spent ripping each other apart. Picking Hillary as a running mate will heal most of those wounds. Another good reason to choose Hillary is that she received about 50% of the vote. She almost won the candidacy. It was so close, and she doesn't get silver (trying to make an Olympic themed metaphor, did I stretch it too far?).

In all honesty, I didn't think she would get it. That stupid 3am ad would have blown the option off the table if I was in one of Obama's four pairs of shoes (hopefully not a $520 pair). What that ad said is that Obama wasn't qualified to handle difficult decisions. It's not out right, but it is insulting.

I seriously don't think McCain can win this election. The Republican party has alienated a huge voting base. I'm speculating that is why the media is spending so much time trying to level the playing field. If the polls are close, they have a story. If the polls aren't, they have nothing, but are obligated to report on something. The "news" in America is mostly a joke anyway.

Ding ding. That's why it's not showing a 15-20% lead in Obama's favor, and it never will.

I think you underestimate party loyalty though. People will look at that D next to some funny looking name, and they'll pull the lever for the R. And vice versa, though it's harder to call this time with the party division in the D camp.

What about the concept that Hilary was offered the VP slot and rejected it? I can see her looking at this election this way:

She doesn't go as VP, Obama doesn't win the election and Hilary gets to wait only 4 years to run again under the premise that she was right the entire time.

If she was his VP, the she'll have to wait at least 8 years before she gets to run again, and her being his running mate really was a good way for him to win. Waiting 8 years would put her at the same age as McCain now, which is "too old."

I think Hillary is looking for the best way to win the next election in 4 years, that being not really helping Obama win this one.

I read this weekend that she wasn't even considered. I'll look for the article.

And when they were talking to both of them through out the primary and Obama after he was the "presumed" nominee, Obama was saying "Hell No" in a really really nice way.

The DNC is so boring.

The RNC is where it's at.

I think that if, after last night, people are still uncomfortable with Biden, those people should check to see if their heads on straight.

I'll have to watch the footage then. I'm interested to see how he gains the trust of the Obama crowd.

Lots of family stuff, reassurances in his belief in the man to quell his primary season criticisms. etc etc. Mostly, he was trying to assuage the perception that he's a Washington Insider just because he's been there for 30 years. IDK I remember the convention from 4 years ago, and there just wasn't this much excitement on either side. Now this year we have all this excitement in the D camp, and kind of a rumbling dislike of the D camp unifying the R's. Republicans aren't excited about their guy at all.

/Plans on playing the POWPOWPOW drinking game during the RNC.
//It would be disrespectful if he hadn't made a mockery of his service already.

and then promptly loses said lead, leading to Obama's biggest lead so far. Polls are stupid.

Saw Obama's speech last night (promptly followed by the Daily Show and Colbert Report), it was very good. Best speech I've heard that took place during my lifetime.

Really? I enjoyed the speech, but I definitely didn't think it was even his best.

His Yes We Can speech is his best IMO.

Yeah last elections convention speech was wonderful.

/this was exactly what it needed to be though.