Forbidden Donut

I voted no for the lack of a more specific polling answer.

In my opinion, I do not believe most obese people have anything that should be construed as a disease. I think the body is naturally inclined to eat as much as it possibly can, and I think you combine that with the most available and cheap foods in the modern world, which happen to be very high in salt and sugar, and you create a situation where people will eat far more than their bodies expected to handle. In general, I think most cases of fat and obesity are just a result of bad luck, lack of self control, and/or lack of means to sustain a more healthy diet and activity regiment.

I do think there are mental disorders that limit some people's ability to exercise self-control when it comes to eating, and also some conditions that decrease a person's metabolism to the point where it is extraordinarily difficult to lose weight. I still wouldn't call obesity a disease since I think it is the consequence of other ailments in cases such as this.

No. Or at least no more than say, dumbness.

You could of course have a legitimate case of dumbness. There are numerous physiological causes for it, as well as a plethora of really great excuses. But you could just be straight dumb.

In that case, the dumbness isn't the disease, the disease that caused the dumbness was. In the case of obesity, if you're fat from diabetes, then your disease is not fatness, it's the diabetes.

But I use the definition of disease which requires it to be pathogenic or mutagenic. So if you use the more general "a condition of impaired bodily function" then sure, obesity counts.

no it's not a "Real" disease
yes it's a mind disease, where food > all

Nope.

Its a product of our circumstances and food supply. Same as most of our chronic diseases.

This question made me think for a bit.

Most of your know i'm quite overweight having met me at lans. I answered yes for one reason. The brain. I see obesity on the same plain as anorexia, depression or any other psychological disorder. In simple terms, my brain doesn't work the same as others. Food takes on an entirely different role in my life compared to that of a average sized person. With my own personal case, i eat because it makes me feel good. (Self-destructive) Comparitivly, Someone who is depressed takes pills to acheieve the same results. Eventually you get so caught up in the emotion of feeling satiated that it becomes a comfort.

It also is important to go into the process of weightloss. The common response to this is: "duh, cut back on what you eat," but is that really the answer? Most obese people would tell you that losing weight is one of the hardest things imaginable, and it is. The thought of myself becoming a normal size is completely daunting. I know it is important for my health and other aspects of my life. Yet, this has never helped me lose weight.

I believe obesity is a disease the same way alcoholism is.

Not to sound offensive, but that's not a disease, that's lack of willpower.

So basically...all mental health issues are a lack of willpower. God that was easy!

If it's a disease it should be treatable. Or am I using to strict of a definition?

Maybe a disorder?

I'm probably a little biased, having been treated for ADD and miserable on pills for years. I just find it a little harder than most to accept psychological disorders as legitimate and not just behavioral anomalies.

/not to say that psychological disorders are fake, just that my first inclination is to assume that it *isn't* an actual physiological condition in a person's brain.

Clicky Click

You completely twisted what I was saying, and I don't think anyone here is stupid enough not to see that. Nice try though?

Willpower comes easy for some. I say the lack of it might be what i'm talking about.

To further my point, i basically know how much my life would change if i lost weight. Easier time meeting people, health, etc, etc, etc (this list really doesn't stop.) How could improving my quality of life to such an amazing extent not serve as willpower enough to make the change? (Rhetorical Question) Hense by thoughts.

It's especially apparent that it isn't simply a willpower issue when you consider other things that you may do in your life that require fairly impressive amounts of it. Which I'm sure you, as most people, do.

Lack of willpower in one area of your life isn't indicative of a will problem.

I wouldn't classify alcoholism as a disease either. And I don't think that detracts from the seriousness of that issue at all, just like I don't think it does the advancement of the obesity issue any disservice.

It's like Memento:
"There's no physical reason that Sammy shouldn't be able to form new memories."
Doesn't mean Sammy didn't have a real problem though...

many factors- lack of motivation, can't change your habits, uninformed about nutrition, etc. Not a disease though, neither is alcoholism in my opinion. Just a chemical imbalance in the brain



just look at Jared. All he did was eat subway and get aides and now he is a man of significantly less gravity

Jared Fogle was a fat, extraordinarily lazy fucker who ate straight up sacks of meat while sitting on his couch and only started eating at subway because it was in his dorm building and he didn't want to walk down the street to the actual dining hall.

"Coffee for breakfast. For lunch, a six-inch turkey sub with a small bag of Baked Lay's chips and a Diet Coke. For dinner, a foot-long veggie sub and a Diet Coke. On the sandwiches, no cheese, no mayonnaise, but plenty of lettuce, green peppers, banana peppers and pickles, and a dab of mustard. No snacks, and no cheating. Exercise was not part of Fogle's plan, but after a few months he noticed he had more energy, and started walking to class. Toward the end of his diet was walking about a mile and a half daily."

He's not a weight loss story, he's a cautionary tale about what it takes to weigh nearly 500 lbs by the time you're 18.

/I dislike the cut of Jared's gib

Coffee - You know that picture is of Tom Cruise right?

Also, in my rage I started reading more about him, and supposedly he had a stash of porn big enough that he made money by renting out his videos. The theory is that this is what funded his subway schtick.

yeah man the tom cruise picture was supposed to be connected to the chemical imbalance reference :x (matt lauer interview)

i also do think jared is a fuck sucker, but i only brought him up because he was overweight and now he is not

As an "obese" person I take great offense to this post.









Ok, not really. I know that I have weight issues due to my sedentary lifestyle. I have been think and in shape at different points in my life, so I know that this is a motivation issue more than a disease per say. Do I know I need to be more active? Yes. Am I making changes in my lifestyle to do that? Yes. I think that claiming obesity as a disease is a load of crap.

Now, the results of being obese for extended periods of time are not fake. Could those have been avoided? Yes. But often times, myself included, most people that do eat more than they should are suffering from depression, some more sever than others. Some eat out of boredom, I am guilty of that as well. These are the root issues, and there are others like this, that need to be addressed by the individual.

You basically proved my point. I was trying link mental health disorders with obesity. I feel i'd be hard pressed to find an obese person who didn't struggle greatly at one point in their lives leading them down a selfdestructive path. What stable, healthy individual would eat copious amount of food knowing what will happen. Some cut, some act out, some wallow, some eat. Coincidence? I think not.

I think it also important for me to state that my thoughts on depression etc, fall under the disease category. I'm honestly not sure what a clinician would say. I've just seen how depression shows itself in members of my family and can't help but see a link.

The coldhearted bastard that I am says that all those people need to cowboy the fuck up.

I agree with the reasons stated earlier. It simply is a lack of will and motivation to eat clean and have an active life versus being sedentary.

There is the factor that people can be born with certain body types. Generally they are classified as Ectomorph, Endomorph, and Mesomorph. However that just gives you the basis of what your body may be shaped as (skinny, large, etc). From there you just need to build yourself correctly.

disease: a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.

I'm not sure why this thread is about obesity, as the answer to this applies to a lot of "diseases of the brain". Some are more genetic and scientific than others. There have been psychological tests that show that the ability to fall into an addiction (such as alcoholism) are in-part the result of genetics. But then you run into the question of nature vs nurture, which is also relatively unknown.

The line for me gets drawn at whether you are able to acknowledge what you are doing or not. I believe that bi-polar people have a disease because they aren't in control of the state of their feelings. An alcoholic is able to think before they start drinking that "I'm going to get fucked up this might not be a good idea, but the hell with it I'm going to do it anyways." Same for cigarette smokers, which I happen to be. Every time I light up, I know that I'm facing myself with consequences down the road. A bi-polar person doesn't have that before they go manic, or depressed. A person with down syndrome doesn't have that before they pull their pants down in front of a crowd of people.

Claiming that you don't have enough will power doesn't cut it for me. Will power is the result of discipline, not mental capability. You can blame your parents for giving you bad genes. After the age of say 16 or so, you can't really blame your parents for your lack of discipline.

You're making a lot of fucking assumptions there. Probably a lot of assumptions that you have no real basis for, except for your feelings. Which, from here, it looks like you have no control over. (Look out, bi-polor?) That being said, my cousin has down syndrome... Severe down syndrome. He's never pulled his pants down in front of a crowd of people. Guy's got dignity. He's retarded as shit, half the time he barely knows what's going on. But he composes himself. Reacts to everything he sees with what he can.

When I was maybe seven, or eight. I walked up to him, and literally, asked him "Are you retarded?", much as my parents had wished I hadn't, or even had specifically asked me not to. And this guy, a few years older than me, with more decorum than most of you have when you're talking about something you actually know, nevermind talking shit like you ussually do, looked at me, and just said "Yeah".

And it wasn't some drooling answer. He looked me in the eye, and he understood what that meant. Reguardless of what it means, the man still makes his own decisions, and still tries to be the best man he can. And he does a pretty fucking good job. And he's never pulled his pants down in front of a crowd of people.

Down syndrome isn't the only reason why people pull their pants down in public.





Obesity can also be caused by procrastination. There are plenty of reasons why people are obese. Obesity is the symptom, not the sickness.

obesity is an excuse.

The people who have extremely low metabolism and don't do anything about it and end up they way they end up. I do agree that some people will become bigger than others eating the same amount of food as someone with a high metabolism, but they also need to take it upon themselves to do something about it rather than just blaming obesity for their troubles.

So I just searched for honest to goodness answers on what Obesity is classified as.

Found this. It pissed me off. It is on the basis that an op ed calling for the designation of Obesity as a Disease made me angry that I formulate my opinion that it is in fact, not a disease and should never be treated as one.

I would also think that treating the obesity, which I'm inclined (for now) to believe is a symptom of a larger problem is dangerous as it avoids treating the real cause. It's just like alcoholism. While there are tons of anecdotal stories (some of us may even have some) of AA working wonders for people, the numbers reflect that you are just as likely to quit drinking without treatment as you are with treatment, and counseling for depression, mania, and tragedy increases those odds significantly. I'd say that treatments that specifically target the fatness of a person are probably neglecting some core problem in that person's life and might very well be leaving them with feelings of such complete powerlessness that they go right back to their vice.

/Not sourced because I'm pretty sure the pitfalls of AA and other alcoholism treatment programs are well known and well documented.

Whoa bill, lay off a bit. He was making a point and used a poor example, lay off the guy a bit. He was obviously not intentionally insulting you, your cousin, or anyone with downs.

The point he was trying to make still stands and is valid, despite all your (imo misplaced) righteous indignation.

It is at this temporal juncture that I'd like to offer the following:

I may not have known a metric ton of people with mental disorders, but I've met quite the variety. The 2 Down's Syndrome kids I've met were by far the coolest of the bunch. And they also managed to keep their pants on.

Now Asperger... you never know what those kids'll do. That's the wildcard disorder.

As addressed in another thread. I was fucking hammered. I'll stand by my remarks, but they may have been misdirected.

And I'll stand by redbone's remarks because I think he made a pretty good point, offensive or not.





edit: His point wasn't that people with Down's pull their pants down in front of people.

This whole discussion reminds me of that 15 or so year old girl that tried to sue McDonalds because of her weight. The lawsuit failed (thank goodness). The funny part was I caught part of a talk show with her and her mother on it. IT WAS CLASSIC! Can't remember which talkshow. It may have been Maury Povitch or something. Anyway the Host talks about the lawsuit with her and her mother a bit, how it failed. He then asks the overweight girl if she was old enough to drive. Being only 14 or 15 she said of course she couldn't drive. He responded with "So your mother drove you to the McDonalds and paid for your food there? So, why don't you sue your mother?" The look on the mothers face was classic. Epic Win for Host!

Very abbreviated version but hopefully you get the gist of it.

Firstly, no. Reasons already stated.

Second. Did you know that technically bodybuilders (the competitive ones with < 4% body fat) are obese? I know we're talking about people with very high body fat percentages here but most people don't know that the "scale" that makes people overweight to obese doesn't take into account body fat percentage. It only takes into account height and weight. In fact, most 18-30 year old males who work out regularly and have a decently big build (for example 6' 210lbs) are technically obese.

i feel like people could easily classify anorexia and bulimia as a disease but are hesitant as to calling obesity a disease. here's the bottom line.

"a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, esp. one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury" (taken from the dictionary)

not everyone can stop themselves from being obese. there's thyroid issues, metabolism issues, and mental issues.


i can't believe 22 people think that obesity (at the most basic level) isn't a disease. it fits all the markers, so what other proof did you need?

For some it is for some it isn't.

Some people just eat too much because they have a sweet tooth and no self control

Some people just have bad metabolism and can't lose weight in a regular way. Yes they can work harder and maybe lose some fat, but they are probably never going to be skinny or what we consider to be really fit...its just the way it is.

Some people have eating disorders...that make them want to eat all the time. Some people may cop out and say that but some people actually have a disorder with it..

Obesity can be caused by a disease, but obesity by itself is not a disease. Someone can be obese and perfectly healthy otherwise.

wrong. someone can be overweight and healthy otherwise but the word obese itself means "grossly fat and overweight" which states within the word itself "this person is not only overweight, but to the point where the term obese is being used to label said person"


there's a difference between being obese and being overweight.


furthermore, obesity claims more lives than aids + cancers + accidents every year. and people are still adamant about calling it a disease.

I don't think the amount of people that are obese or the amount of deaths that obesity cause is relevant at all.

it adds sustenance to the topic. it's more widespread, thus fitting the profile of a disease. (so it's relevant)

Where is this profile you speak of? I was unaware of any "widespread" requirement for disease classification.

Anorexia and Bulimia are not the same type of thing as obesity. Being underweight is the same type of thing as obesity, and I guarantee the 22 people that said obesity is not a disease would agree that being too thin is not a disease. The disease is what causes the problem, not the problem itself. No one of at least average intelligence will argue that there are not diseases that cause obesity, but that wasn't the question.

+1

-1.

Not because Court's argument was false, but because being from Canada you automatically get a -2 for every point you attempt to make. It's called the Canadicap.

Oh, how I wish I was as clever and witty as you guys when making posts =D
<3 for suitable material to recently turned 21 intoxicated me's.