Forbidden Donut

get one of those orbital cross country ski motion ones. the ones at the gym i go to are asskickers, i love em.
i got a simple, old cheap tread mill at home i use alot. not fancy but does the job. get creative? i got a block of steel from work. i use that for all kinds of excercise and motions. practice tai chi with wieghted stuff on ya. youll notice a difference lol.

yea it does take a little longer but the result is the same minus that joint stress. its a good option. ANY excersise is a good option.

Kettlebell. Dead serious. Get a 35lb one and work on being able to do 500 KB snatches. Will cost you less than $100 and you will be stronger than running/biking/elliptical but with the same endurance capacity. Takes of less room too.

Running and Swimming are the best endurance exercises overall. But if you need a stationary one, I would go with treadmill. Running kicks ass.

Swimming is without the doubt the best for your overall body coverage and damage. But assuming you're talking about something you can buy and do at home, a step climber is excellent. (Or you can just run up and down the stairs and try not to injure yourself) The problem is that a good step climber will cost you, and cheaps are just that, cheap.

I believe Phil.

and yeah, swimming is great too.

girlfriend

Swimming burns the most calories. Elipticals are the best on your knees.

And Girlfriends are the most fun.


and the most annoying.

Phil, was the suggestion of 35lb based on what you think Court's strength and fitness level could handle, or is that a general suggestion for the weight any of us should use? What about the number of reps? Is there a certain max or min time limit?

I'm asking because I'm thinking about picking up 1 or 2 (probably 1 because they're expensive as shit) kettlebells to help build my shoulder endurance.

There's one evolution in BUD/S and Hellweek called Log PT and it has one of the highest drop on request rates. Recruits are grouped into boat crews of 5-7 guys and have to haul a giant log around to do multiple exercises with it for like 2 hours straight. Also, there's a lot of work done with the small inflatable boats. Pushing them up over your head, running between evolutions with them on your head, lifting and setting them down over and over. Obviously more than just shoulders get worked out, but I already work out most of my body plenty during the week. Lately with all my calisthenics, running and swimming I seem to be neglecting my shoulders. The individual load on each man during these evolutions isn't that much, right around 30lbs or so, but the fact that it lasts for hours really pushes you to your limits.

Throwing in some KB snatch workouts during the week, or any other work with the KB that would help with shoulder endurance, seems like a good idea to me.

How often do you use the KB? What kind of exercises can you do with the KB? Which ones would you suggest for someone looking to work on shoulder endurance? What weight or weights would you suggest me purchasing?


Sorry to hijack your thread Court, but i think your question has been answered anyway.

EDIT:

PS. 35lb Kettlebell on ebay for $63 including shipping.

Convenient, that place is located in Lancaster so you could drive down and take a look yourself.

What does this mean?

To me working out has to be done outside/in a gym. Working out in my living room, on the carpet, just doesnt' feel right and I end up doing a few pushups and then doing nothing. Going, warming up, and then pushing yourself seems a lot easier to me.

As much as I like to cycle...sationary bikes are pretty boring, and you are right you need to do it a lot longer. I don't mind stationary bikes when you are on rollers, as it feels a lot more like riding but those still kinda suck as well. (Riding outside is a whole different story as it is actually fun).

Elipticals just feel really weird to me, and I don't feel like I am getting as much as a cardio workout

I would go for running.

a lot of personal preference here tho obviously.

I guarantee I will have no success going to a gym. If I can exercise in my apartment, I can do so with relatively no preparation and can even do certain exercises while I'm doing other things (preparing/cooking dinner).

Lots of questions there CJ!

I answered court's question based on his desire for endurance work, plus my personal belief that you need some strength or strength-endurance work to achieve useful fitness. 35lbs is a good weight for anyone who isnt already in good shape to start with, for a KB. Someone who is already pretty strong can start with 44 or 53lbs. However for endurance the 35lb is always useful, if we're talking about long sessions. The standard is the Secret Service Snatch Test. Its very simple. snatch the KB as many times as you can in 10 mins. However, to me endurance means longer than 10 mins. As you noted with Log PT, 2-3 hours is quite normal for military prep. But since Court is not a longtime lifter, 35lbs would allow him to get stronger and then move into the endurance work fairly quickly as he adapts. After talking to him some more I made some differing recommendations.

Now for you...you're looking at some serious asskicking in BUDS. I've only ever worked out with 1 SEAL and he was a total badass. My sister has been to Pendleton to train and reports that its pretty amazing what goes on there.

Right now you are mostly running, swimming and doing calthistentics right? So push-ups and pull-ups. But military work requires that you carry a bunch of shit. 50lbs of gear, ruck marches, log carrying, dragging ammo boxes, etc.

First to answer your direction questions to me, then to make my recommendations for you. I workout with my KB maybe 3x a week at the moment. I like to keep things varied, but have torn some ligaments in my ankle and am swamped in schoolwork, so my workout ethic has been poor the last few weeks. So don't go by my standards! I do all manner of exercises with said kettlebell, because its all i have right now, aside from my bodyweight. I squat with it, snatch it, clean it, press it, swing it, and deadlift it. Its a 53lber, because Bill borrowed my 35lber like 2 years ago and I have yet to recover it. Currently I have been working toward being able to press the KB 5x with each arm. 4 on the right and 3 on the left. But my exercises are mostly maintenance while i heal my ankle and finish out this semester of school.

Now. for your situation. What do you have? What do you do. As a basic recommendation I would suggest you do some carrying work. Think strongman. Find a log, or rock, or sandbag or kettlebell that weights 35-75 lbs and start carrying it for time or distance. Carrying big assed weight is a good way to work your general capacity to do shit. The sandbag mile is a good challenge. Goal: to carry half you BW 1 mile in under 20 mins, structure your training as needed.

Also, you dont actually need a kettlebell. They're pricey (but can be found at Play It Again for pretty cheap). Dumbbells work well. But like I said in Gachi's thread, get your ass into some sort of functional movement program ASAP. Sounds like you're already doing stuff, just make sure you don't neglect absolute strength. How's your deadlift?

Phil: Why aren't you like... I donno... Hercules? And at what point do you become capable of flight?

What I meant is the link that CJ posted on ebay is from a gym located in Lancaster, PA. Therefore Court could actually go down to that gym and take a look at the equipment they have to offer.

to debunk a myth, elipticals are killer cardio workouts. just do what your comfortable with. then push it a little higher.

GRiF: See sig. Thanks.

-dan

Currently I'm running 3 days a week, swimming 3 days a week, and doing calisthenics 6 days a week.

I haven't touched any weights in over 2 months. I've been told I already have more muscle than the average SEAL, so it seems a waste of time and energy to worry about putting more on.

My running consists of a mix between continuous high intensity for shorter runs and long slow distance. My swimming i've been doing mostly interval training, just swimming .5 or 1 lap intervals focusing on form. I do that for about an hour each session.

Calisthenics i'm currently doing 4x35 pushups, 4x35 situps, 4x15 supermans, 4x10 pullups. I've recently been doing 1 set of each with little to no rest between, waiting 3-5 minutes and doing another set of each.

I haven't done a dead lift in literally years. I have no idea what my ability is as far as that goes.

Like I said, I'm mostly interested in the kettlebell because it seems like a simple and effective way to help build my overall endurance and more specifically help target my shoulders and core. I was also looking into getting a sandbag to haul around, i can't seem to find anything suited for use in fitness. I remember in high school wrestling we had some nylon sandbags that were made for exercise and they were great.

I'd just like to point out that muscle mass and strength are two completely different things. While you may be muscular, your strength could be in the shitter, especially after not touching any weights for 2 months. Because you'll be working with said log for 2-3 hours for your BUDS test or what not, I suggest you start deadlifting and pressing, but concentrate on form. Working with that log for 2-3 hours will probably put you to complete exhaustion, but you can definitely save a great deal of energy if your form is on point. Towards the end of the log work, I'm sure you'll be too tired to even think, but if you ingrain proper form there will be little possibility of injury as well.

Well I've always been the type of person to stress perfect form in the gym, so I'm not too worried about that. I definitely see what you're saying though. That's part of the reason I inquired about the kettlebell and the way I could use it to build strength in my shoulders and core.

I'm not sure how i feel about your declaration that strength and muscle mass are two completely different things. This goes against every ounce of logic and reasoning in my body. Can you maybe elaborate? Does anyone else agree disagree with this statement?

As you gain strength you increase the number of muscle fibers, increasing your muscle size or mass. Someone who has larger muscles will be stronger, provided they have the same muscle density, i suppose. So I guess it's someone who has larger OR heavier muscle will be stronger. Idk, I'm not an expert but this is something i've never really questioned or heard the opposite said about. Am I wrong? I could see maybe saying that strength and muscle mass aren't the exact same thing, but to say they are completely different things seems off to me.

Well, body builders and strength trainers don't usually look the same? idk either. I always thought that you *could* exercise for mostly muscle size with little to no strength payoff. But I know how you worked out before, and I assume it's the same deal now with some specific tweaks, so you're probably not in danger of that mistake. Maybe the point is that you're muscle size will stick around while your strength starts to deteriorate. But again, I'm less knowledgeable than damn near everyone else here on the matter, so I'll just shut my face.

You stay out of this, Nunes.

Lol. J/k.

Body builders don't look the same as someone who trains for strength, yes this is true. People who train for strength are usually a lot fatter and either larger or just as large. Sooo... there goes that theory.

Maybe you suck too much dick to be strong?

This is very possible.

Making a sandbag is super easy. Get a dry bag from a sporting goods store. Very heavy duty so you dont spill sand everywhere.

http://www.rei.com/product/780284

20-30 Liters is a good size. Fill with sand and close tightly. Boom, sandbag, $30. I have one that weights about 100#, its a 25L size I think.

Thanks, I wasn't sure what search terms to use to find them. I was search 'sandbag' all over the interwebs and wasn't really getting any results.

philly isnt full of sand as popularly believed.

It isn't hard to get sand though. A lot of people use it when creating new gardens and such to help keep the soil from becoming too compact.

You can buy 75lbs of sand for $9 at Home Depot if you can't manage to find it elsewhere.

ebola's comment was still funny, though

How much sand (in lbs) do you think a 10L dry bag would hold, Phil? Is your 25L 100lb bag pretty full or is there room for more sand?

My 20-25L one is full, not much room for more. Remember, you don't need to re-create conditions of Log PT exactly to train for it. Training 20-30 mins with a 75-95lb bag will be perfect training for 2-3 hours with a 30lb load.

As for 10L, it should be proportional right? I'm pretty sure I have a 25L bag.

Sand is about 1650 kg/m³

SO:
1 kg = 2.2 lbs
1L = .001 m³

10 L Bag:
.01 m³ @ (1650 * 2.2) lbs = 3630 * .01 lbs = 36.3 lbs

25 L Bag:
.025 m³ @ @ (1650 * 2.2) lbs = 3630 * .025 lbs = 90.75 lbs

You could always keep the bag next to a humidifier to make it a bit heavier, or a dehumidifier in a closet to make it a bit lighter.

(I may not know much about lifting, but I can convert the shit out of units)

Really though. That all depends on how coarse or fine the sand is, doesn't it?

Surprisingly very little. If the sand is coarse then each grain takes up a bigger volume and that seems to be proportional enough to not matter. I suspect that sand so fine it is effectively dust would simply pack tighter and lead to a heavier bag, but the minute differences in sand coarseness don't seem to have much of a recorded effect at all.

Sand, wet --------------- 1922 kg/m³
Sand, wet, packed ----- 2082 kg/m³
Sand, dry --------------- 1602 kg/m³
Sand, loose ------------- 1442 kg/m³
Sand, rammed --------- 1682 kg/m³
Sand, water filled ------ 1922 kg/m³
Sand with Gravel, dry - 1650 kg/m³
Sand with Gravel, wet - 2020 kg/m³

Even if the sand has gravel in it, the density doesn't really change THAT much.

Fill a fucking bag with sand. If it's too heavy, let some out. If it's not heavy enough stick it underwater before you go for a jog.
/cock.

edit: in theory, I'd suspect that the increase in grain size is relatively correspondent to the increase in mass such that the density remains the same. Sand has a tendency to close-pack when compacted, so the difference between 3 fine grains of sand and 1 large grain of sand is probably a 100th of a mL worth of plain air.

i think CJ wants actual experience with putting sands in bags here rather than a statistical analysis... maybe im wrong. but statistics is pretty useless here.

Win

Win x 2

lol you guys are like the fbi fags on numb3rs who think charlie can't help solve their crimes with arithmetic even though he quite clearly can

everything is mathematics guys

i'll see anunez doing some bayesia probability calculus when i see it. for now, stfu.

That would be a pretty silly way to tell him what size bag to buy, dick.
Question:How much sand (in lbs) do you think a 10L dry bag would hold, Phil? Is your 25L 100lb bag pretty full or is there room for more sand?

Answer: 10 lb bag holds about 35 lbs, 25 lb bag holds about 91 lbs. Here's some math so you know I didn't pull that out of my ass.

I don't see what crawled up your ass.