Israel Palestine updates and discussion
  • NunesNunes January 2009
    Hamas refused to completely disarm everybody in Palestine, so the ceasefire agreements broke down. Back to the drawing board I guess. Meanwhile it's a 'war' that Hamas and Israel are waging not on one another's soldiers, but on their citizenry.

    "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over." - Israeli Company Commander in the "neutral" zone after "confirming the kill" of a 13 year old girl by emptying his magazine into her body.

    "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." - The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna (from the Hamas charter)

    The only "good guys" here are the ones being killed for being in the wrong place in the wrong time.
  • NunesNunes January 2009
    Update:
    QUOTE
    JERUSALEM — Israel's top leadership Saturday approved a unilateral ceasefire that would halt the devastating 22-day military offensive in the Gaza Strip but Hamas vowed to keep fighting until all Israeli forces pull out.

    Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said after an emergency meeting of Israel's security cabinet the truce will go into effect at 7 p.m. ET Saturday.

    He said Israel will keep troops on the ground in Gaza for the time being.

    "Our goals as they were set at the beginning of the operation were fully realized, and even more than that," Olmert said.

    "Hamas was hit hard, in its military arms and in its government institutions," Olmert said. "If the fire stops entirely, the IDF (Israel Defence Forces) will weigh pulling out of Gaza at a time that befits us. If not, the IDF will continue to act to defend our residents."

    In the hours leading up to the cabinet meeting and after it started, Israel kept bombarding Gaza. In the northern town of Beit Lahiya, Israeli shells struck a United Nations school where 1,600 people had sought shelter.

    One shell scored a direct hit on the top floor of the three-story building, killing two boys, UN officials said.

    Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum said a unilateral ceasefire was not enough.

    "The occupier must halt his fire immediately and withdraw from our land and lift his blockade and open all crossings and we will not accept any one Zionist soldier on our land, regardless of the price that it costs," Barhoum said.

    More than 1,100 Palestinians, half of them civilians, have been killed in the three weeks of Israeli attacks, according to Palestinian and UN officials. Thirteen Israelis have also died.

    Defence Minister Ehud Barak earlier indicated Israel's readiness for a ceasefire, saying the country "was very close to achieving its goals and securing them through diplomatic agreements."

    He spoke during a trip to southern Israel, which has been the target of Hamas rocket fire.

    Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni indicated that Israel would renew its offensive if Hamas continued to fire rockets at Israel after a truce is declared.

    "This campaign is not a one-time event," she said in an interview with the Israeli YNet news website. "The test will be the day after. That is the test of deterrence."

    Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon both demanded Saturday an immediate end to the Israeli assault and pullout of all troops.

    A summit aimed at giving international backing to the ceasefire will be held in Egypt on Sunday. It is to be attended by the leaders of Germany, France, Spain, Britain, Italy, Turkey and the Czech Republic -- which holds the rotating European Union presidency -- as well as Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Mubarak and UN chief Ban.

    It was not immediately clear whether Israel would send a representative, and Hamas has not been invited.

    Israel launched the offensive Dec. 27 to try to halt near-daily Hamas rocket attacks against southern Israel. The rocket attacks were sparked by the Israeli siege of Gaza.

    Egypt has been a key interlocutor in weeks of negotiations to end the assault on Gaza.

    Israeli strikes on Gaza kept up even after the cabinet meeting began. Walls shook and windows trembled in the southern Gaza border town of Rafah as Israeli warplanes soared above head, apparently focusing their missiles on the no-man's land with Egypt where many suspected smuggling tunnels lie.

    A total of 13 Palestinians were killed in battles throughout Gaza on Saturday, Palestinian medics said.

    John Ging, the top UN official in Gaza, condemned the attack on Beit Lahiya that killed the two boys -- the latest in a series of Israeli shellings that have struck UN installations.

    "The question that has to be asked is for all those children and all those innocent people who have been killed in this conflict. Were they war crimes? Were they war crimes that resulted in the deaths of the innocents during this conflict? That question has to be answered," he said.

    The Israeli army said it was launching a high-level investigation into the shelling, as well as four other attacks that hit civilian targets, including the UN headquarters in Gaza.

    The army investigation also includes the shelling of a hospital, a media centre and the home of a well-known doctor.
  • ScabdatesScabdates January 2009
    already broke the ceasefire

    +1 israel
  • NunesNunes January 2009
    There were actually two cease-fires. Israel's and Hamas's. Somebody should tell them that's not how it works.

    Not much of a ceasefire if you do it like that...
    :START
    Hamas: Rockets
    Israel: Rockets, tanks and troops
    22 days pass
    Israel: We're tired of killing you for now. We're going to stop. Please also stop. Olly-olly oxenfree
    Hamas: Fuck that, you just killed a shit load of Gazans, and then just left the troops there and said it's over.
    2 hours later
    Hamas: Rockets
    GOTO START
  • BrianBrian January 2009
    QUOTE (ANunes @ Jan 19 2009, 02:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    There were actually two cease-fires. Israel's and Hamas's. Somebody should tell them that's not how it works.

    Not much of a ceasefire if you do it like that...
    :START
    Hamas: Rockets
    Israel: Rockets, tanks and troops
    22 days pass
    Israel: We're tired of killing you for now. We're going to stop. Please also stop. Olly-olly oxenfree
    Hamas: Fuck that, you just killed a shit load of Gazans, and then just left the troops there and said it's over.
    2 hours later
    Hamas: Rockets
    GOTO START


    I don't usually agree with you, but...

    +1 and a lol for good measure.
  • EvestayEvestay January 2009
    lol to thinking that the reason Hamas decided to keep shooting rockets at Israel after the unilateral ceasefire is due to wanting retaliation for the dead Gazan civilians.
  • NunesNunes January 2009
    QUOTE (Evestay @ Jan 20 2009, 01:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    lol to thinking that the reason Hamas decided to keep shooting rockets at Israel after the unilateral ceasefire is due to wanting retaliation for the dead Gazan civilians.


    Renegades != Hamas

    lol to thinking that Israel actually wanted a ceasefire in the first place. That "ceasefire" consisted of Israeli soldiers continuing to walk what was left of the streets of Gaza and their government saying that they wouldn't shoot unless shot at. That sounded more like "war" to me than "ceasefire" when I first heard it. And I'm not surprised that Hamas responded with their own equally ridiculous conditions, as always, or that some renegades broke both ceasefires because they don't give a crap since both their sisters and their mom were blown to pieces by an Israeli rocket attack on a hospital.
  • EvestayEvestay January 2009
    I agree that both sides want to fight each other and that the attempts at a ceasefire on both sides lack cooperation. However, I think Hamas is fighting because it hates Israel more than it loves its civilian population. Sure Israeli bombing adds to their hate, but attacking from behind civilians on purpose does not say much about their love for their fellow Palestinians.
  • NunesNunes January 2009
    QUOTE (Evestay @ Jan 20 2009, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I agree that both sides want to fight each other and that the attempts at a ceasefire on both sides lack cooperation. However, I think Hamas is fighting because it hates Israel more than it loves its civilian population. Sure Israeli bombing adds to their hate, but attacking from behind civilians on purpose does not say much about their love for their fellow Palestinians.


    Fair enough, but it takes two in this situation to kill civilians. One to hide behind them, and one to pull the trigger anyway. And while Hamas is possibly the shittiest government ever elected democratically, I can't give the moral high ground to Israel when they use Phosphorous Grenades and also hide behind Palestinian civilians.
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