Bankruptcy
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I'm kind of sick of reading about stupid fucking people making stupid fucking decisions and then having media outlets trying to make me feel sorry for those people. This latest article about bankruptcy in America is a perfect example:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/16/bus.../16consumer.phpQUOTETony and Carrie Forsyth, both 30, chose not to walk away from their house in Florida. The couple said they thought their financial situation would improve in 2006, when Forsyth accepted a promotion from his employer, a Michigan food distributor, that required them to move to Florida. But they could not sell their home in Ypsilanti, Michigan, so they decided to rent it out.
In June 2006, the couple headed south and bought a house for $220,000 in Tamarac, Florida, with no money down. Five months later, their tenants in Michigan stopped paying, and the family had to carry two mortgage payments, just as the adjustable-rate mortgage on their Michigan home reset to a higher interest rate. They lost the Michigan home to foreclosure in February 2007.
By that time, however, the couple, who have two young daughters, were using credit cards to pay for food, utilities and clothes. After accumulating about $20,000 in debt, they said, they realized that bankruptcy was the only way they could remain in their Florida home, whose value, meanwhile, had plunged 25 percent. They filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy protection this year, which permitted them to keep the house, and they agreed to repay a portion of their debts over the next three years.
So let me get this straight. Tony and Carrie Forsyth were in a financial bind, so their brilliant solution was to NOT sell their old house while simultaneously taking a variable-rate mortgage of $220,000 with zero money down and moving all the way across the country. Then when their totally irresponsible gamble didn't pay off, they again choose not to sell their homes and instead file for bankruptcy, and I'm suppose to feel sorry for them?
Fuck you Tony and Carrie. -
QUOTE (Tom @ Nov 17 2008, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It is also a problem that mortgage (and credit card) companies lend to people who obviously spend outside their paycheck range.
That's a problem insomuch as they expect me to bail them out when their lending policies blow up in their face, but I hardly see anything "wrong" with lenders trying to make all of the money they can possibly make. Like I said, if they're asking me for money because of their irresponsible habits, then that's totally different (and we already have a few threads in regard to that). I have no problem with this couple gambling with their financial future; my problem lies with the presumption that I should feel bad for them or help pay their way out of the shitter. -
Protip, if you're not putting 20% down on your house you're going to pay out the butthole in lenders insurance shit so the bank will loan you money. If you have to do it, you're probably buying a house that is TOO FUCKING EXPENSIVE YOU STUPID CUNT.
I enjoy the stories about people "not spending money" for a certain amount of time. They usually end up making their squash buddy pay for the balls until he won't anymore, then saying they'll pay them back some other time. They are just lessons in how to make all your friends completely hate you while not learning anything in the process! -
QUOTE (Tom @ Nov 17 2008, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>what I mean, Court, is that the companies both knowingly take these risks because the company is not afraid to go bankrupt and knowingly enable people to spend more than they can afford. i believe that is unethical in both the economic and financial stand point.
And I have no preconceived notion of ethics, so I think it is safe to say that you and I will not agree on that point. -
QUOTE (Tom @ Nov 17 2008, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>companies both knowingly take these risks because the company is not afraid to go bankrupt
Um, what? Please elaborate. -
QUOTE (mungo @ Nov 18 2008, 07:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Um, what? Please elaborate.
I believe what he means is, although I'm sure he can elaborate, is that when companies feel like the government will back them up if their risk-taking blows up in their face, they are more likely to take extraordinary risks in the first place. In this particular case, the companies were coasting on an artificially inflated market-place, and they assumed the fed would be able to lend them huge chunks of capital at hilariously low interest. This has worked for a long time, but it doesn't work as well when every single one of them needs the loan. -
QUOTE (Governor @ Nov 17 2008, 04:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>So let me get this straight. Tony and Carrie Forsyth were in a financial bind, so their brilliant solution was to NOT sell their old house while simultaneously taking a variable-rate mortgage of $220,000 with zero money down and moving all the way across the country. Then when their totally irresponsible gamble didn't pay off, they again choose not to sell their homes and instead file for bankruptcy, and I'm suppose to feel sorry for them?
Fuck you Tony and Carrie.
That... was beautifully articulated. -
Alfy makes a good point... it says "But they could not sell their home in Ypsilanti, Michigan,"
So yes it's an unfortunate situation, the guy was just trying to take advantage of a promotion. This was two years ago, not everyone knew things were going to be as bad as they are now, and he works for a food distributing company.
But I don't feel any kind of urge to give them money, which I guess part of this thread is angst about them asking for it?
To me the only thing I get from reading an article like that is that the economy still isn't stable, which isn't exactly breaking news.
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QUOTE (redbone @ Nov 18 2008, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Alfy makes a good point... it says "But they could not sell their home in Ypsilanti, Michigan,"
So yes it's an unfortunate situation, the guy was just trying to take advantage of a promotion. This was two years ago, not everyone knew things were going to be as bad as they are now, and he works for a food distributing company.
But I don't feel any kind of urge to give them money, which I guess part of this thread is angst about them asking for it?
To me the only thing I get from reading an article like that is that the economy still isn't stable, which isn't exactly breaking news.
They couldn't sell their house for the amount of money they wanted; that's totally different than not being able to sell your house at all. It is unfortunate that this was the case, but rather than accepting that misfortune and making the financially responsible decision to sell their house at a great deal less or abandon their home altogether, they decided to gamble by holding onto it when they could not afford to do so. The fact that they simultaneously took out a hilariously irresponsible mortgage on top of that is just icing on the cake, but they may have even been fine with it had they not had the mortgage from their first house to deal with as well.
They made every single irresponsible decision they possibly could, and now they're paying the piper.QUOTE (Alfy @ Nov 18 2008, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I believe everyone is making the assumption that people will buy a house in Ypsilanti, let alone anywhere else in the state.
Like I said to redbone, I'm not making any assumption about the state of the housing market in Ypsilanti. It would have been more financially safe for them to abandon their home altogether than try to juggle their new irresponsible mortgage with their old financial baggage. They gambled; they lost. -
When my pops moved out of our old house he got to sell it himself and we had to find another place without that money. It took time, but we found one that we could afford to pay off a 20% down payment on after saving for about 6 months straight and taking a bunch of my grandmothers money (she now has a piece of paper in a plastic cover for a grave marker). The house had to be refinanced twice and eventually the payments settled down a little bit and with a little luck, my mom stayed away from being laid off and has moved up in pay consistently. She just married a guy of about the same means, and both of them were living in tiny houses. They have chosen to sell both houses and get a new one, that they can afford 20% down on and have reasonable payments on after that. We are pricing our house about 50,000 dollars cheaper than our neighbors that sold 6 months ago because of the market, and because we want to flip it fast.
Does my mom get free money for doing a good job? -
QUOTE (ANunes @ Nov 18 2008, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...
Does my mom get free money for doing a good job?
America doesn't reward those who do well for themselves. -
this country is full of dumb fucks. and then they ask for help after fucking themselves over which in turn fucks everyone else up. but it's ok, just spread the wealth. take from the rich and the people who actually know what they can afford and help the dumb fucks survive and reproduce to create more dumb fucks. and since dumb fucks seem to reproduce at a higher rate then non dumb fucks we just get an explosion of dumb fucks. fuck you dumb fucks.
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I frankly don't care too much about people like this as they don't have any effect on me beyond reading about them. I care much more that Barney Frank chuckled at 25 billion dollars in bailouts to the auto industry which has been highly under-reported on compared to the mortgage bailout and saying they have another 75bn lined up for March '09...
*I'd rather pay all these people's mortgages off than pay the banks that handed them out... but c'est la vie. Raise your hand if you wrote your congressman and senators.
*I'd rather pay none of it, but we don't like in a democracy or anything like that, so I don't get a say in that. -
*raises both hands (one for each senator)
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QUOTE (Jedd @ Nov 20 2008, 08:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>*raises both hands (one for each senator)
Now put down a hand for each senator that still voted yea. Bum. And actually, even if one voted Nay, put that shit down cause it had nothing to do with your letter.
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... from PA only one Representative voted No both times through the House. I'm QQ'ing inside.
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